Wheel swap...

Also the DS185.

Wheel swap...

New postby Lyngbye on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:00 am

I want to build something like this (ish)
So I was wondering if anybody knows wich, if any, bikes, that has interchangeable, plug and play front wheel with my TS185.

I'm looking for a 18" drum brake, spoked front wheel.
I want to keep my 21" wheel, as a spare, for actual off road use (Wich i very rare in my part of the world) So I'm not looking to build a new wheel.
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Last edited by LWC82PE on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: locking opening post to keep it at the top
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby LWC82PE on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:01 am

it's a little hard to ID the hub on that bike. I need a larger/more clear pic of the brake plate. i can tell you plenty of hubs that will bolt into those forks but they wont be in a 21" rim

It will be a lot easier going to 19" as theres more chances if fining a 19" front wheel.

Swapping forks on these is pretty easy
Assuming you want to keep stock forks, that means using wheel with 12mm axle, which is what most Suzuki drum brake front wheels use.

From what I have seen with most Suzukis with front wheels that are smaller than 21”, they are 19”, not 18. I am not saying there wont be any 18” fronts out there but I have not seen any in this period that will have brake plates that will work with your forks easily with no mods. i work on a lot of different old and new bikes and 19" front wheels is alot more common everywhere than 18"

To have an all Suzuki set up that is drum brake and a direct bolt on with your forks, it will either require a full custom set of spokes and specially drilled rim or you could do it combining parts from other models and at most, the 'hassle' of just a custom set of spokes.

One idea is to use a full width 130mm brake hub/plate from 79-80 RM125 or 80-81 PE175. Hubs are same but PE plate has speedo drive in it. If you wanted larger 150mm brake then use the RM250/400 or PE250/400 full width hub 79-80 for RM -80-82 for PE. Also 1977 PE250 hubs is same as 1980 PE. Older TM and RM front hubs pre 78 are another possible option, but if you want a speedo drive you will need to use a plate off an older TC or maybe TS roughtly 76 or older. I am pretty confident it would work but the angle of the brake lever may not be ideal. If you use the RM250/370 76/77 type plate with no speedo drive then that should work ok though. I know what plates with speedo drive work on that hub but i dont know 100% how they will fit with the forks. I would suggest first option being to use the 79 and later full width hubs as the stock TS brake plate will work on those. Either the 79 onwards 185 one or if you got to the 150mm hub then pretty much all of the 150mm brake plates from leading axle forks will work. There are some little things you need to look out for as they do vary a little and i can expand on that further when i know what direction you want to take.

Full width hubs makes it a little simpler because the rim drilling is same on each side compared to conical/half width hub so this makes it wasier to source an 18" rear rim off another bike

So then I would get a 18 x 1.85 rear rim from a 78-81 PE175 or 78 RM125 and probably this rim is same as 79-81 RM100 and 79-80 RM125. i can give full list off bikes that can donate this rim. They are alloy rims and not steel. The bigger bikes 250cc and up will have 2.15 size rear rims and i dont think you want that as it is wider than the rear rim then. I can can confirm some of this info more accurately/fully but for now i am just working on stored knowledge. :)

The rear hubs that this rim comes from are about the same diameter and width at the flanges so this will mean that it should lace up to the full width front hubs easily. i have ability to compare for example 78 PE rear dub to 80 PE front hub but in my head right now i think it would work. There's a chance that the spokes from the rear wheel can be used still, but if not then a custom set of spokes can be made.

This is the path I would go down if I was in your position As you dont need to do any non reversible mods to fork and retains ability to slot original wheel back in. I don’t know much about the road bike front wheels and if there are 18” options from Suzuki. A a lot of those older GT/GS/T suzukis had larger axles and the brake plates wont work with the TS leading axle forks, so I naturally look to what front hubs do I know will fit the forks with no mods and then go from there.

If you want an alloy rim for the rear hub then one from 76/77 RM100/125 will go on your hub as the RM uses same hub, Or you could just fit the whole RM rear wheel. Also you can fit the complete 78 RM125/PE175 78/79 rear wheel. Virtually a direct bolt in, but keep in mind you probably cant go much smaller than 39 on the back. one catalogue is telling me smallest is 38 for that hub but i am not sure on that. You could always put 13T on front anyway and pair that with something a little over 40T to keep same ratio though. I think i may use that hub on mine because it was easier to find a new alloy rim for that hub. If i wanted new alloy rim for the stock hub i would have needed to get a new one drilled.
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby Lyngbye on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:01 am

Sounds like it's easier to just build a new wheel.
I've got a cpouple of 18-1.85 rims around. I know how to lace a wheel (Former bicycle mechanic)
Better just find a front hub, from a bike like mine. :)
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby Butcher on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:01 am

What were you intending on doing with your bike? Road use?

Drum or disc brake?


It is good to have a bicycle mechanic on board! I have seen BMX bikes on the road with 50cc engines on board! Pretty cool, if you are into light things.
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby LWC82PE on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:01 am

How did my post get to the top? Bloody hell, we need to fix that! If you can build wheels this wont be a daunting task but to make it easier i would suggest going with a full width hub and rim, if that what your rear 18x1.85 rims are.
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby MyBad on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:02 am

What you need to search for is a GT185 drum hub. 18x1.60 make a stay rod for backing plaTe and machine spacers to suit. Hardest part is locating the backing plate as they are TLS and work and sort after.
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby LWC82PE on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:07 am

Ok I was able to get this thread in proper order and locked the opening post to keep it at the top.

GT might be an option. The TS fork leg has bolt holes for a low mount fender, so you could mount the brake stay to. GT have 12mm axle? I could check bearing part number myself if i had a spare moment i guess.
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby MyBad on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:37 am

15mm axle on the GT185K. same hub as the early TS250 and TS250II but the backing plate is shared only with the first TS250. This as You would be aware is a rare part.

If I had one I would try it on a few hubs I have here as I have a suspicion it may fit something quite common.
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby LWC82PE on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:02 pm

Well there is a wrecker in Australia whos got 2 of those early TS250's at the moment.

Ok lets see what bearing in the GT hub and if they can be easily swapped to 12mm ID ones??

So 73 GT185 has 6202 (15x35x11)

quick look at SKF here
http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/index.html

shows only 32 or 37mm OD options. Theres a slim chance one of the specialist bike parts suppliers makes 12x35 for something special but it adds to the complications when needing to source odd ball bearing that 99% of places don't have. I recommend using common parts where possible as it makes further fixes/replacements easy. Also you never know, some day some rare odd ball bearings may be no longer made. I have found this to be the case with some SKF roller bearings used in old German 2 strokes.

so for
GT185
you would need to either drill out forks to 15mm or machine hub to take 12x37mm bearings or make adaptors to use 12x32mm bearings
you need to modify the brake plate so a brake stay can be bolted to to it.
you need to make a brake stay
You need a different or possibly custom made brake cable
Good points the chromed steel rim will match the rear rim.

For PE/RM/DR full width 130mm or 150mm front hub
You can use stock TS brake plate or the PE/RM/DR plate that comes with the hub (in most cases). There are slight width variations at the axles center hole width on some models (but we are talking 2mm here). The important bit is the slot on the plate will match the forks which is good.
You need a 18" rim, preferably 1.60 or 1.85 width and from a full width hub. 1.85 can be sourced from late the late model RM100/125 and PE175.
You then need to lace it to the front hub. Quite possibly can use the rear spokes from the wheel donating the rim, if not then custom spokes from a good wheel building place eg Central Wheels UK or Buchanans USA will be needed. Both will make spokes to order if you email them accurate data of how you need the spokes to be.
Bad points is the alloy rim wont match the steel rear.

Important note to remember is that as soon as you start messing with front wheel size and different brake plates with different gears from different size wheels, that your speedo reading will not be accurate. Maybe you would find fitting an electronic one an easy fix?
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby MyBad on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:26 pm

I would be swayed into making a sleeve for the bearings if it was to be kept period but I doubt it. but if faced with reality i would consider sourcing a DB front end with the same offset and change headstock bearings to suit.
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby LWC82PE on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:34 pm

The GT hub/wheel is not really 'period' for his 1980 TS185 though. Thats the reason i have made my suggestions as they are from the same period/generation of parts as his TS185 so basically just bolt on swap for the hub/brake. Just need to mate 18" rim to the hub.

There wont be many if any dirt bike front ends with 18" front wheels though. Certainly not from this period. TS/DS 100 has 19" front. Dunno what more modern 80cc MXers have? RM 80 in late 80's has 33mm forks with disc brake which is what the TS185 has (33mm forks)
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby Butcher on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:12 pm

"Ok I was able to get this thread in proper order and locked the opening post to keep it at the top."

A bit to the left. Nope, a bit to the right. A bit more.... :|
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Re: Wheel swap...

New postby MyBad on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:42 pm

Either or leith, DB would be the WTG for a Motard , early road bikes used 18s but an easy swap without machining is not going to happen. Forks and brakes plus by the time of the ER series things had moved away from hub braked. Its going to cost and a 185 isnt ever going to be on on the list of wanted motards

Its going to take a lot of work to find a match if you really want it
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