1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

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1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby JoeH on Mon May 01, 2017 6:29 pm

Hi,
I did a few searches and didn't find what I was looking for so excuse the question if it has been discussed. I need to do more research but thought I would ask.

Looking for a rebuild kit or similar for the 79 carb and noticed that there seems to be a gap from 78' to 80'
I know rebuild kits are not necessarily the best way to go but it seems the needle valve and seat are unavailable.
So basically I would use the o-rings and the needle and seat and the gaskets.

Do they use standard mikuni vm28mm parts for the needle and seat? (just got done rebuilding a set from a kz)
Where are you guys buying parts from?
And are there any good alternative carbs that work well for upgrades?

Thanks
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby jonny1978 on Mon May 01, 2017 6:52 pm

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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby John_Smallberries on Mon May 01, 2017 8:03 pm

I got all of my 1971 TS250 parts from http://www.partzilla.com. Here is the link to their section on 1979 carburetor:
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Suzuki/Motorcycle/1979/TS250/CARBURETOR/parts.html

Good luck!!!
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby JoeH on Tue May 02, 2017 11:46 am

Thanks!

I have a bunch of Vm28 parts right know I think I will see if they are the same specs. Needle and seat are leaking.
I may put a fuel shut off right before the carb for now I want to ride this a bit and see what it all needs. Plan a rebuild and restore (not perfect) this winter.
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby JoeH on Fri May 05, 2017 1:53 am

I have never seen carb with an air screw on the side and what I assume is a fuel screw on the bottom.
What is the screw on the bottom?
where is it supposed to be set?
What pilot is supposed to be used in the 79 ts,one manual says 25 one says 30??
Thanks
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby Butcher on Fri May 05, 2017 3:04 am

You need to buy a Haynes manual...

Do some reading here mate...


http://suzukits.informe.com/forum/service-data-manuals-wiring-diagrams-f124/


Also read the Mikuni manuals. They are on this site somewhere...

http://suzukits.informe.com/forum/technical-books-guides-etc-f211/mikuni-tuning-manual-4th-edition-t3392.html

http://suzukits.informe.com/forum/links-f31/2-stroke-tuning-guide-t1446.html?hilit=mikuni%20book#p10835


Try the search function, top right of page. All these questions have been answered a hundred times or more on this forum...
Last edited by Butcher on Fri May 05, 2017 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby JoeH on Fri May 05, 2017 3:39 am

Thanks for the links!
I went though the data pages and didn't find the factory setting for the fuel screw...
I have a few mikuni manuals in my shop area and the ones I have show either a fuel screw or a air screw, but not both . Interesting set up for sure.

I will look at the Haynes manual and do a few more searches , I did search for about 30 min and didn't find the answer but there's a lot of info on the site !

I will probly fall back on how I tuned my 750 triple vm's. What I am experiencing is most likely lean pilot circuit and I have all jets so it's just a matter of try and try again ....gota love jetting!!

I will assume until I know more about this system to set the screw on the bottom of the carb at 1 1/2 turns out
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby Butcher on Fri May 05, 2017 5:35 am

http://suzukits.informe.com/forum/service-data-manuals-wiring-diagrams-f124/suzuki-ts250er-uk-79-89-service-data-t3071.html

That is the UK model with the air screw. US model has cover over it, so is preset.


You warm you bike up and peak the rpms then screw in slightly to richen mixture slightly.

Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual.Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual. Read the Mikuni manual.
Last edited by Butcher on Fri May 05, 2017 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby Butcher on Fri May 05, 2017 6:12 am

‘Fix it and try again’ - Burt Munro.

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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby LWC82PE on Fri May 05, 2017 7:56 am

For the Haynes manual make sure it is this one you are using and not the later one. This one is the right one for USA TS models pre 1980.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Haynes-Manual-0218-Suzuki-TC90-TS90-TC100-TS100-TC125-TS125-TC185-TS185-TS250-/351897733845?hash=item51eebd4ad5:g:LnoAAOSw4GVYHcnA
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby JoeH on Fri May 05, 2017 11:09 am

Should I read the Mikuni manual? :D
Good video too.
Are you a KTM guy Butcher? I love the looks of those KTM and have never had a chance to ride one. A guy I know races them and has a race shop near me and has run my H2 on his dyno to help with the timing and jetting. He has a NICE shop, CNC machine, dyno, all the toys a racer needs, and he's a great guy to chat with. I need to get him to run my H2 again this year to test some of the changes I made over the winter.

I will read over the manual posted and get the Haynes
I am fairly well versed in tuning carbs, both 2 and 4 stroke , vm's, cv's, rs's in the mikunis, and I have fiddled withs some cv keihin's also but not the pwk's or the fcr's, I have heard the pkw's are the cat's pajamas from a few kawi triple owners I know.
My question or interest was really about the 2 systems together, the fuel (pilot) screw at the bottom of the carb and the air screw on the side.
All the other carbs I have seen have had either one or the other, and one was not just capped off. Both mine are open and adjustable (the PO must have uncorked one or the other or both…maybe??) . I could see how this system may allow for some finer tuning of the pilot circuit and the transition from circuit to circuit as the throttle is applied.
Whenever I have rebuilt carbs in the past I aways started at or near factory settings or known settings that have worked for that specific model with specific engine or intake mods.
This carb threw me a curve….I like it! (unless I can't tune it.. :lol: )
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby Butcher on Sat May 06, 2017 12:24 am

"Are you a KTM guy Butcher?" No. they break down too much!

Good video eh? Guy describes things nicely. Even demonstrates. But that KTM is a 2-smoker, so same principle behind carburettion.


"I love the looks of those KTM and have never had a chance to ride one."

I am just jealous! Never been into looks though. I ride in old boots, trousers, teeshirt or with jacket on and old garden gloves! Too many posers out there (see my avatar! You won't catch me as a walking advertisement for a multi-national conglomerate faceless company!

Dyno would be handy. Better to learn to read sparkplug though. 2-strokes are not 4-strokes! Single cylinder too... Run lean and look out for trouble...


"I am fairly well versed in tuning carbs, both 2 and 4 stroke"

But you don't recognise an air screw??? mmm. That was why I said read the manual. VERY useful.


"the fuel (pilot) screw at the bottom of the carb and the air screw on the side."

Read the manual mate... Bottom is bowl drain and side is the air screw that fine tunes the pilot jet. The inlet for it is on bottom of the carb air inlet. Small hole, about the size of a match head. All of this is in the manual!



"All the other carbs I have seen have had either one or the other, and one was not just capped off. Both mine are open and adjustable (the PO must have uncorked one or the other or both…maybe??) ."

Yea in the states, the adjustment was capped off to save dolphins and trees and shit. Your bike could be US or UK. You have not quoted the carb ID, so this is just rhetoric.



Mate, the Haynes manual ('79-'89) EVERYONE should own one. Bloody useful. I have read about 90% of it (cause I am lazy and can't sit still for 5 mins). I learnt soooo much. For about $80 NZD, great value.


Tuning screw is there for a reason. At higher altitude, there is less oxygen. Also, air pressure changes this too. This is called "tuning".



Search for 'EPA'. Fun police! Good luck mate. Did you read the mikuni manual ?! Skip to the VM round slide section :)
Last edited by Butcher on Sat May 06, 2017 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby LWC82PE on Sat May 06, 2017 4:31 am

The KTM 2T's might be decent but i have played enough with the modern 4T's to know they are best avoided. And i am a mechanic so can do repairs and get parts at ok prices so that saying a lot. I don't want a bike that needs a full engine rebuild, all new bearings, valves, big end etc every 70hrs. Stuff that. Its totally true with what KTM says should be done and when too. I first thought what a load of crap as if its going to need all this done at 70hrs as per the book. Pulled a 450 to bits and yep they were right. If anything that was not stuffed yet, it was worn enough for it to not be safe to put back in. They are just built for all out high performance. Light weight, hi revving, 800mls of oil.... no wonder they wear out quick. Feel sorry for the owners who have t pay some one to do all the repairs and get the parts for them. Its laughable when you think back to the 70's or 80's when a 2T motocross bike was considered 'high maintenance.
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby JoeH on Sat May 06, 2017 1:00 pm

Butcher
I know the difference between a float bowl drain and a fuel or air screw!!
There are 2 METERING screws on this carb!! One controls the air (on the side of the carb) and one controls how much fuel is let through the pilot circuit hole in the carb throat (bottom engine side of carb).

And as far as plug reading its great but bit more difficult with modern fuel at least here in the US and if you read my post carefully you would see that I was working on jetting and timing , timing affects jetting ALOT, and with my 72' kawasaki H2 750 triple , which I built from the ground up, I am running a Zeeltronic timing controller and can program any timing curve I want. I needed info, the dyno is a tool and a diagnostic, like plug reading, reading the rpms on full throttle runs, and just listening to the motor. It can do NO magic but it sure can help those who know how to use them.
Just thought if you were a Ktm guy I would have asked if you may have heard of this guy, he gets around the world on those adventure races and has been to many many countries and sells a lot of his own product to other KTM guys.

I have read and been rereading Mikuni manuals and jetting bikes for 30 yrs!! I know what I am doing... assuming someone doesn't is best on a forum...
I know what I am doing, been around the block a few times :D

As far as other bikes to each his own, I have my favorites and my dislikes for multiple reasons, I do love old smokers!
I love the old big fours GS and KZ stuff. Love My GS1150 Suzuki, fun playing with 150 rwhp on a old bike, it still surprises people after all these years!
And I am about to fire up a near mint 1980 KZ1000 MKII after it has sat for 20+ years with a broken tranny, can't wait for that, maybe this week!! 8-)


Just for info there is at least ONE TS 250 In the world with two METERING screws in the pilot circuit, it lives in my garage :o
I will be pulling the carb off again soon Ill post some pics!

Thanks for all the info, can't wait to get a good manual for the TS

By the way this is one FUN bike, rode it all night last night, over to a friends for a BBQ, and the through the fields by our shop. My son has taken to it too, just a couple of big kid's having some great fun, we had a blast!!! Running much better after a good carb cleaning, new tranny oil and new 2 stroke oil too!

Good day and Good riding!!
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Re: 1979 ts 250 carb rebuild

New postby Butcher on Sat May 06, 2017 11:22 pm

"Butcher
I know the difference between a float bowl drain and a fuel or air screw!!
There are 2 METERING screws on this carb!! One controls the air (on the side of the carb) and one controls how much fuel is let through the pilot circuit hole in the carb throat (bottom engine side of carb)."

"Just for info there is at least ONE TS 250 In the world with two METERING screws in the pilot circuit, it lives in my garage :o
I will be pulling the carb off again soon Ill post some pics!"

Any chance of a photo ? Any chance of quoting the carb id number? -Just wanting to know if your carb is original or not...







"I have read and been rereading Mikuni manuals and jetting bikes for 30 yrs!! I know what I am doing... assuming someone doesn't is best on a forum...
I know what I am doing, been around the block a few times :D"

No probs. One has to assume the worst! It is easy to become disillusioned after so many people don't consult the manual... I have few concussions after hitting head on wall! :)


"Thanks for all the info, can't wait to get a good manual for the TS"

The Haynes is great, but not perfect...



"By the way this is one FUN bike, rode it all night last night, over to a friends for a BBQ,"

Did you chuck the expansion chamber on there ??!!


Yes the TSs are a fun bike. I am off for a ride next weekend. I have not cleaned the bike since last ride. She is covered in mud! Today is a bit cold, but I intend on replacing the stator, CDI and ignition coil on my 125 with my spare ones. Just trying to chase out the dreaded plug fouling! also, the existing CDI is hard wired. The replacement bits are all original and have plugs on.

I bet the TS250 would be a great road bike! Big (soarta) old 2-smoker! Take care out there!
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